Timeline for Dissuading my girlfriend from a scam
Current License: CC BY-SA 4.0
84 events
| when toggle format | what | by | license | comment | |
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| May 4, 2022 at 11:48 | history | edited | Flux | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
Fixed typos
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| May 3, 2022 at 19:00 | history | edited | Omegastick | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
Added conclusion
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| May 3, 2022 at 15:54 | comment | added | MonkeyZeus | I'm really sorry to hear that. I think you should add this update at the end of your answer since this question is so popular. I don't think there are many people that will read through the 57 comments here. It will serve as an excellent warning beacon for years to come. Let me know if you're unsure of how to get started with the edit. | |
| May 3, 2022 at 15:31 | comment | added | Omegastick | @MonkeyZeus The guy running the scam took the money and ran after about a year. A lot of people in my girlfriend's family lost a lot of money. Thankfully she didn't put any of her own money in. | |
| May 3, 2022 at 13:43 | comment | added | MonkeyZeus | How did this all turn out? | |
| Sep 9, 2019 at 6:00 | history | tweeted | twitter.com/StackFinance/status/1170939922238386176 | ||
| Sep 7, 2019 at 18:32 | comment | added | user13722 | @Omegastick: When people request clarification in comments, the thing to do is to edit the question to supply those clarifications. Don't just respond in comments. To see your clarifications, people now have to read an extremely lengthy comment stream. | |
| Sep 7, 2019 at 4:44 | comment | added | Omegastick | @padd13ear They'd really be playing the long con. We've been dating two years, living together for three quarters of that. My girlfriend has helped me through some really hard times, and vice-versa. I'd part with my meager savings in a heartbeat, if it bought me the relationship I have. | |
| Sep 7, 2019 at 1:37 | comment | added | ab2 | @Caius Jard IMO, your comment would be a good answer. | |
| Sep 6, 2019 at 17:54 | answer | added | NL7 | timeline score: 0 | |
| Sep 6, 2019 at 17:39 | comment | added | Damon | Hmm... a transaction exceeding 500kPhP will make you subject to AMLA, which may mean 14 years of prison if there turns out being anything shady down the lane. How do prisons in the Philippines look like? Much alike Le Club Med where one would like to spend a couple of years, or rather like I'd imagine they do? Personally I'd stay away for that reason alone even if they did actually pay me 50% per month interest. | |
| Sep 6, 2019 at 16:43 | comment | added | Chris Sunami | Relevant: books.google.com/… | |
| Sep 6, 2019 at 11:51 | comment | added | Caius Jard | I think my solution would be a rather simpler "darling, if you invest in this, I will find a different girlfriend" for the basic reason that when she becomes a wife, my money will become our money and I don't want to share a life with someone who makes decisions like that, throwing away what I earned when it should have worthier causes like our future. I appreciate that you're trying to help and educate her, but ultimately everyone is free to lose their own money however they see fit so if you hit a brick wall with convincing her, there may be no other option | |
| Sep 6, 2019 at 10:55 | comment | added | Lomtrur | Could it be that the return is just casino bonus credit? In this case the casino might let you re-invest the bonus credit if you also add more actual money to encourage people to give them more every month. Winnings made with bonus credit can't be withdrawn (in this case, I don't know if that is normally possible) so there is no risk to the casino but they get free money every month from people who have no intention of actually playing. | |
| Sep 6, 2019 at 10:52 | comment | added | padd13ear | Sorry if I'm not putting this tactfully, but how well do you know your girlfriend and her family? Is there any possibility that gf + family's actual objective is to persuade you to part with your money to invest in this scheme that may or may not actually exist? | |
| Sep 6, 2019 at 7:20 | comment | added | agemO | Ok I can't answer because I just joined, but here are the total amount of money for 1000$ invested: After 1 year: 129 746$ After 2 year: 16 834 112$ After 3 year: 2 184 164 409$ (2 billions !!!) After 4 year: 283 387 333 428$ (283 billions, no ones is that rich) If the casino can do that they don't need anyone to invest, period. Ask them when this started (you can even say that you prefer something safe that has been going for a long time, so that they will try to give you a very large answer). | |
| Sep 6, 2019 at 7:06 | comment | added | agemO | You have to show them the math, if you invest X$ and every month your investment get x 1.5, then after n months you will have X * 1.5 ^ n dollars. You can take a sheet and show them how 100$ will evolve. | |
| Sep 6, 2019 at 6:58 | comment | added | Omegastick | @agemO It's also possible that the one who is a 'millionaire' is lying, and in on the scam. | |
| Sep 6, 2019 at 6:57 | comment | added | agemO | @Omegastick my point is that if most of them are rich or very rich, what's the point for the rest of the family to invest ridiculous amount of money from their own pocket ? And the millionaire guy, why can't he live a life of luxury ? I understand why turkeys that have only let say 10k $ prefer to reinvest all their "money" to have more later, but when you start to have millions, and the rest of your family is also getting rich, why not just taking a few hundred thousands $ each month ? | |
| Sep 6, 2019 at 6:56 | history | edited | Omegastick | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
Clear up the percentage of people that have taken part in the scheme
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| Sep 6, 2019 at 6:53 | comment | added | Valorum | @agemO - Sure. It's a "casino" (of sorts) so they've probably got quite a large float. That doesn't mean that this is a legitimate transaction though. It might just be people with access to the cash vault using their location as a cover. Since the money doesn't leave the casino, they don't need to show ownership of it. | |
| Sep 6, 2019 at 6:52 | comment | added | agemO | @Valorum It is just that at some points it seems they physically have some money in their hands, but millions and billions are a lot, so it just seems physically impossible to me. | |
| Sep 6, 2019 at 6:47 | comment | added | Valorum | @agemO - The issue for me is the "which they immediately reinvest". Since the money isn't ever entering their possession, they don't really have any money, even if they can, in theory, take it back. | |
| Sep 6, 2019 at 6:46 | comment | added | Omegastick | @agemO Only one of them has been doing it long enough to become a 'millionaire'. The others merely think they are 'rich'. When I said 'all' in the OP, that was an exaggeration. I should have said "most". | |
| Sep 6, 2019 at 6:43 | comment | added | agemO | @Omegastick So to be clear, each member of your girlfriend's family think they are millionaire or billionaire now ? | |
| Sep 6, 2019 at 6:40 | comment | added | agemO | @Valorum "This amount is always handed back to them in cash, which they immediately reinvest", I can imagine it can work for tens of thousands of dollars, but millions ? Or even billions ? Why the fuck would you try to convince a relative to invest 1K $ from his own pocket when you think you are a billionaire ? The key difference with Madoff is that the ponzi scheme was sustainable enough so that sometimes people where able to take some money out, and for the others it was only 'statement' not real (fake ?) cash. Here with 1$ turning rapidly into billions it is just not possible. | |
| Sep 6, 2019 at 6:38 | history | edited | Omegastick |
edited tags
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| Sep 6, 2019 at 6:38 | comment | added | Omegastick | @agemO I wasn't there, so I don't know. Her family just tell me that they definitely have the cash "in hand" before they reinvest. | |
| Sep 6, 2019 at 6:32 | comment | added | Valorum | @agemo - Madoff showed people millions by sending them a regular "statement". This is no different. I arrive with £10,000. After a few days I'm called in and shown what appears to be £20,000 but, critically, I'm barred from taking it out of the room. Have I got £20k? No, I've got nothing. | |
| Sep 6, 2019 at 6:29 | comment | added | agemO | @Valorum How can they show them millions or billions of dollars in cash ? (I also doubt that their initial or total investment was only 1$). I hope the OP will update. | |
| Sep 5, 2019 at 20:15 | history | protected | Ganesh Sittampalam♦ | ||
| Sep 5, 2019 at 19:51 | answer | added | TheAtomicOption | timeline score: 1 | |
| Sep 5, 2019 at 18:03 | comment | added | MonkeyZeus | Highly relevant: money.stackexchange.com/q/112669/25694 | |
| Sep 5, 2019 at 17:54 | comment | added | Valorum | @agemO - It sounds like the "casino" is showing them some money, which the marks then re-invest. I'm assuming it never leaves the premises and that the dupes would be given a reason why they couldn't actually take it away | |
| Sep 5, 2019 at 17:51 | comment | added | ventsyv | Can you add a location tag please? Knowing the country will immensely. | |
| Sep 5, 2019 at 17:40 | answer | added | ventsyv | timeline score: 9 | |
| Sep 5, 2019 at 14:33 | answer | added | Peter | timeline score: 14 | |
| Sep 5, 2019 at 13:06 | answer | added | MonkeyZeus | timeline score: 47 | |
| S Sep 5, 2019 at 12:51 | history | edited | Freiheit | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
IPS mod here: We don't take questions that ask us to come up with arguments for you. If you have any and need help presenting them, we might be of help, but your PS was wrong and unneeded, so I removed it. Feel free to ask a new question if need arises, but check the IPS help center first!
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| S Sep 5, 2019 at 12:51 | history | suggested | Tinkeringbell | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
IPS mod here: We don't take questions that ask us to come up with arguments for you. If you have any and need help presenting them, we might be of help, but your PS was wrong and unneeded, so I removed it. Feel free to ask a new question if need arises, but check the IPS help center first!
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| Sep 5, 2019 at 12:43 | comment | added | RonJohn | @agemO kids say "I'll never use this math in the real world", and then get suckered into stuff like this when they're adults. | |
| Sep 5, 2019 at 12:41 | comment | added | bob | Even after the edit, the math just doesn't add up. The story being told here simply can't be true. | |
| Sep 5, 2019 at 12:39 | comment | added | bob | @PaulD.Waite Lol! :) Good point. Still... | |
| Sep 5, 2019 at 12:23 | answer | added | Savage47 | timeline score: -5 | |
| Sep 5, 2019 at 12:07 | review | Suggested edits | |||
| S Sep 5, 2019 at 12:51 | |||||
| Sep 5, 2019 at 9:05 | comment | added | mootmoot | Tag the country. This is a Ponzi unless you live in country like Zimbabwe. But to convince your family is not easy as their mind already stuck with stories. I just write an answer for this "story vs story" condition. | |
| Sep 5, 2019 at 8:49 | comment | added | Paul D. Waite | @bob: “$1M in fake bills would still be a LOT of bills to pass around” — not with these great new $169,000 bills we just got direct from Fort Knox! | |
| Sep 5, 2019 at 8:48 | comment | added | Paul D. Waite | @Omegastick: which “very corrupt country” is this? | |
| Sep 5, 2019 at 8:40 | answer | added | mootmoot | timeline score: 6 | |
| Sep 5, 2019 at 8:20 | comment | added | agemO | How can anyone ask "are you sure it is a scam? " ? 3 years at 150% every month and you are a millionaire by investing only 1 dollar ! | |
| Sep 5, 2019 at 7:29 | answer | added | knallfrosch | timeline score: 20 | |
| Sep 5, 2019 at 6:21 | comment | added | Omegastick | @RonJohn #1 This is a third-hand retelling, but how I understand it is that the casino has a side-business of running private games for billionaires in Singapore. I'm not confident in how accurate that information is (I received it second-hand myself) and it's probably a fabrication anyway. #2 They took some home when they first started, but now reinvest everything every time. They haven't tried taking the money home recently. | |
| Sep 5, 2019 at 3:38 | comment | added | RonJohn | #1 Why in the world are Singaporean billionaires going to this casino instead of to Monaco? #2 What happens when your GF's parents try and leave with the money? | |
| Sep 5, 2019 at 3:31 | history | edited | Omegastick | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
Add more information
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| Sep 5, 2019 at 2:47 | comment | added | TTT | @Omegastick ok, that's important info. You should add that to your question. (Still doesn't really make sense why a casino would need to offer that though.) | |
| Sep 5, 2019 at 2:12 | comment | added | Omegastick | @TTT This is a legal, fairly large casino. The casino has a story about using the money 'invested' as a float for Singaporean billionaire gamblers. No apparent strings attatched to the money. The idea is that you can take it all home straight away. | |
| Sep 5, 2019 at 2:08 | vote | accept | Omegastick | ||
| Sep 5, 2019 at 2:05 | comment | added | Omegastick | @Mars Unfortunately, this is taking place in a very corrupt country. | |
| Sep 5, 2019 at 2:04 | comment | added | Omegastick | @NuclearWang Yes, a lot of her family members have recently become very 'rich'. Of course, they can't make use of this because the money is currently in the scheme. | |
| Sep 5, 2019 at 0:38 | comment | added | Mars | No suggestions to get some authorities involved? | |
| Sep 4, 2019 at 23:13 | comment | added | ab2 | Don't invest your life savings in ANY one thing. | |
| Sep 4, 2019 at 23:09 | comment | added | Harper - Reinstate Monica | Create an opportunity for the parents to invest the money in something else. See what happens when they try to take the money out. | |
| Sep 4, 2019 at 21:56 | comment | added | bob | Actually something doesn't add up here: even if the casino only ever gives out fake bills, the amount of paper would quickly become unmanageable as described. $1M in fake bills would still be a LOT of bills to pass around. Is the casino instead only given out "money" in exchange for new money "invested"? In that case they're definitely stealing the new real money "invested" knowing they'll never give anything real in return. The "cash" they give is likely either fake, or if it's real then they probably wouldn't let anyone leave with it. | |
| Sep 4, 2019 at 21:56 | comment | added | Acccumulation | @CharlesE.Grant The Madoff scam was ~10% per year supposed return, involved investors being simply being told/shown a screen that said that they were getting that return, and had a sophisticated feeder system of billions of dollars. This scheme is 50% per month (12874% compounded over a year), supposedly involves actual money being shown to the investor, and takes only $100 per person. Suppose someone spends an hour recruiting someone into this scheme, then spend 10 min a month for 2 years showing them the cash. That's $20/hr. Not many people are willing to risk years in prison $20/hr. | |
| Sep 4, 2019 at 21:42 | comment | added | bob | My guess would be that the money the casino gives back is all counterfeit. So they're really stealing whatever real money the family invests. In which case "investing one's life savings" would be financially disastrous. | |
| Sep 4, 2019 at 20:38 | history | became hot network question | |||
| Sep 4, 2019 at 19:58 | answer | added | BrianH | timeline score: 169 | |
| Sep 4, 2019 at 17:37 | comment | added | Charles E. Grant | @Philipp ' Is it a ponzi scheme? Then it wouldn't go on for years. ' The Madoff scheme went on for over a decade. | |
| Sep 4, 2019 at 17:24 | answer | added | daytrader | timeline score: 61 | |
| Sep 4, 2019 at 15:28 | comment | added | David Schwartz | The question can't possibly be accurate. A total investment less than $100 wouldn't be worth worrying about and the minimum amount of time you can describe as "years" would be two years. But if the description is accurate, $100 would become over $1.5 million in two years. There's no way anyone who invested just $100 is being shown over a million dollars in cash, told it's theirs, and not taking at least $100,000 out. Turning $100 into a $100,000 seems very much unlike a scam and not something to complain about. 50%/mo is quickly unsustainable even for a ponzi scheme. | |
| Sep 4, 2019 at 14:55 | comment | added | Grade 'Eh' Bacon | This fails the smell test. Such returns are completely impossible, no exceptions. Anyone saying they 'do not know enough yet to conclude' needs to reevaluate if they might also fall victim to a scam that doesn't come in a format they are used to. | |
| Sep 4, 2019 at 14:47 | comment | added | TTT | You need to provide more information for this to be answered properly. Is this a legal public casino? Do they advertise this offer to the public? What are the strings attached to the money? What is the deposit limit? (If it's a legal casino it's not possible that there aren't any rules around this deal. Maybe they have to place bets totaling the amount they receive at least once before they can take it home, etc.) | |
| Sep 4, 2019 at 14:14 | comment | added | Nuclear Hoagie | The numbers here don't add up at all. If I invested one single dollar with a 150% monthly ROI, I'd be a millionaire within 3 years and a billionaire within 5 years. Unless everyone in her family very recently became millionaires, it should be clear that it doesn't actually work this way. | |
| Sep 4, 2019 at 13:53 | comment | added | dwizum | I find it hard to believe it has, literally, been going on for years, without getting to the point of being unmanageable truckloads of cash. I tried to come up with a figure for the sake of argument but none of the online interest calculators I tried would actually take an interest rate this high. That should tell you something right there. | |
| Sep 4, 2019 at 13:44 | answer | added | mhoran_psprep | timeline score: 28 | |
| Sep 4, 2019 at 13:25 | comment | added | Steve-O | The bit about this going for years is admittedly difficult to explain, but there are just too many questions. How is it sustainable? Where is the extra money coming from? If this casino has a sure-fire guaranteed way to make 150% returns every month, then why isn't everyone doing this? If this weren't a scam or some other kind of illegal enterprise, I don't see why it wouldn't be part of every financial advsior's portfolio by now. | |
| Sep 4, 2019 at 13:25 | comment | added | Lawrence | Is there a written agreement? If so, are there conditions under which the returns are varied or withheld? Unless you have runaway inflation in your country, 600%pa yield compounded monthly doesn’t sound sustainable. | |
| Sep 4, 2019 at 12:04 | comment | added | Omegastick | @Philipp What information do you want to know? I'm not sure if they've ever tried taking the cash home first. If they did, it would have been when they first started and were only putting small amounts of money in. I'm confident they haven't taken any home (or deposited any in a bank) recently. | |
| Sep 4, 2019 at 12:02 | comment | added | Omegastick | @BenMiller To me, this triggers too many red flags to not be a scam. Working in cash only, the 50% p/m guaranteed returns, not certified with their country's security and exchange commision. Yes, they immediately hand the cash back to the casino. I'm not sure whether they've ever tried taking the cash home first. I'm not sure which casino (I'll check with my girlfriend when she gets back). | |
| Sep 4, 2019 at 12:00 | review | Close votes | |||
| Sep 6, 2019 at 19:09 | |||||
| Sep 4, 2019 at 11:41 | comment | added | Philipp | While this deal indeed sounds too good to be true, the question does not contain nearly enough information about the system to write a good argument against it. I think we need to know more in order to clearly show "the catch" of this arrangement. Is it a ponzi scheme? Then it wouldn't go on for years. Is it some illegal money laundering scheme? Perhaps, but we don't have any proof. Is it a confidence scam? Did anyone ever tried to not reinvest the money and cash out? What happened? | |
| Sep 4, 2019 at 11:40 | comment | added | Ben Miller | If it is a legitimate casino, and the family has been doing it successfully for years, are you sure it is a scam? When you say “they immediately reinvest,” Do you mean that they immediately hand the cash back to the casino? Which casino is it? | |
| Sep 4, 2019 at 11:25 | review | First posts | |||
| Sep 4, 2019 at 14:32 | |||||
| Sep 4, 2019 at 11:21 | history | asked | Omegastick | CC BY-SA 4.0 |