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I think I'm a bit confused about the volume in stock markets.
For example: in tradingview I can see for AMZN the volume in 2 minutes candles is in average 1K-2K, what does it mean?
I thought it was the number of shares, but AMZN price is $1600, so it means in 2 minutes the movement in money was approx $2.5M ?
Because that's a lot of money for me but not for all the big investors out there, I mean, that means if I have $2M I can control a full candle in 2m? and with $10M I can form 5 candles?

EDIT: What I mean with full control: A lot of people is using technical analysis to trade, they are for example checking if the bar is green, or the size of that bar, and the volume, or if it crosses some moving average, or some price support etc. And if someone with a lot of money can "create" a green bar (or multiple), then it means it can modify those technical analysis for his own purpose?

  • That seems very low. The chart I'm looking at shows about 20K shares per 2 minutes, which is more inline given the average daily volume of 5M shares. Could that be the volume for the open and/or close of that candlestick? – D Stanley May 25 '18 at 15:57
  • You are true about the maths, TradingView shows 5M per day, but for some reason 1K per minute, when it should be 10K per minute then. Where are you seeing the minute volume? have you tried AMZN on TradingView? must be an error somewhere then. But it does not change my question, just that we need $10M to control minute candles in AMZN, but we could have more control in smaller companies, is that how it works? people with $100M can control the minute candles on any stock? – Enrique May 25 '18 at 17:16
  • Average trading volume per day for the past year is 4.36 million shares (per Thompson Reuters) which is 22.3k shares per two minutes. At $1,600 per share, that's $35.8 million changing hands per two minutes. While it may represent controlling a full candle, it does not mean that you control share price. – Bob Baerker May 25 '18 at 18:38
  • but that's for AMZN, Paypal is $1B per day, tha is $2.5M per minute. And why you say that does not have control over the candle? if the movement is $2M per minute someone with $10M can push 5 candles up or down or not? and manipulating in that case the "technical analysis" from other traders... or I'm missing something? – Enrique May 25 '18 at 18:56
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    I wrote that it does not have control over price. Why do you think that the amount of dollars exchanging hands controls price? If fund (A) is buying $10M worth of stock and fund (B) is selling $10M at that price, the money and the shares change hands and price is unchanged. Candlestick width reflects volume, not the height which is a function of price. In order to affect price, buying pressure must exceed selling pressure, or vice versa, as the existing bids (down) or asks (up) are taken out. – Bob Baerker May 25 '18 at 22:08
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I'm not sure what you mean by "control a full candle", or what you think that accomplishes, but yes if you have the only trade(s) within that 2 minute period, then the candle will represent your trade only. In reality, though, highly liquid stocks like AMZN will have hundreds of trades in a 2M period, so monopolizing the candle in theat period is virtually impossible. You'd have to front-run every single order on one side of the bid-ask spread.

Note that price has nothing to do with it. Whether you trade 1,000 shares of AMZN for $2M or 100 shares of SNAP for $1K, if your trades are the only one in that 2 minute period, then that's what the candlestick will represent.

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  • with full control I mean I can move the candle, maybe to create a psychological effect for some trend start, or break some stop losses. For example if I want a green bar, I just need to put a lot of buy orders, everytime at a higher price. If I can do this for multiple bars I can modify the technical analysis from a lot of people. Or I'm missing something? – Enrique May 26 '18 at 15:18
  • @Enrique: If you're willing to spend the money it would cost you (because those orders would be filled!), you could do that, but in most countries that would make you guilty of illegal market manipulation. – hmakholm left over Monica May 26 '18 at 22:02
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There are 2 sides to every trade, so even if you placed a large enough trade to buy that takes up all the volume traded in a certain period, there needs to be the opposing trades to sell for your trades to go through.

If you place a limit order and there are no opposing trades at the price you are after, then there will be no trades. So in order to have a trade you will either have to wait for new sellers to match your price or increase your buy price to match existing prices.

If you place a market order and you dry up all the current sell prices currently near the last traded price you will drive the price up as your order needs to find higher priced sell orders to get matched with.

If your objective is to change the price over a certain period of time, then good luck to you. When investing or trading, my objective is not to move the price but to make a profit. If your objective is to move the price, then it is unlikely you will make any profits and more likely you will make a loss, especially over the short term.

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  • is not my objective, but my fear. Because a lot of people is using technical analysis to trade, they are for example seeing if the bar is green, or the size of that bar, and the volume, or if it crosses some moving average, or some price support etc. And if someone with a lot of money can "create" a green bar (or multiple), then it means it can modify those technical analysis for his own purpose? – Enrique May 26 '18 at 15:21
  • As per my answer, why would someone with a lot of money purposely lose their money? That is why many institutions place their large orders as hidden orders, to avoid trying to move the market with their order. I use TA and I am not worried about this issue. – Victor May 26 '18 at 21:33
  • because maybe you need a bigger move, if you need to sell $10M it will be hard without selling it at a really low price, but if you buy $10M to increase the price and that triggers a lot of stop buy orders, then you can seell then $20M at a high price? I think this is called Stop Loss Hunter. But I thought that was possible only with a huge amount, and we "only" need $10M to move the market? – Enrique May 27 '18 at 5:04
  • You do realise that the response to a single candle may only last for a candle or two, and it is not guaranteed. Seems like a lot of risk to take for something that might not eventuate. Most traders don't want to move the market with their trades which is why they trade liquid markets. How many traders with $10M in spare cash do you think try to lose money trying to move the market - not many if any. – Victor May 27 '18 at 12:23
  • then how the stop loss hunters work? or why there are so many people telling the "whales" are modifying the market? this is even more obvious in markets like crypto, you can initiate a panic reaction if you can push down the price a bit, and then buy everything again at a much lower price after the panic ends. So you are saying this does not exist and is only paranoid theories? – Enrique May 28 '18 at 16:56

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