2

I've tried to call my UK's bank to explain my situation, but as soon they've heard it's about a scam trading company, they say the chargeback doesn't apply for trading accounts according to their policy. However, I believe I was dealing with a non-existing company, talked to not-traceable people, my payment details got stolen through their non-PCI compliant fake payment gateway via some i-Payments (IPAYMENTS) (they don't respond as well) using VISA Debit Card, and I believe my stolen money not even touched any trading account.

There're some other companies, which can help by offering consulting services, but they charge 25-30% of the recovered funds, which is too expensive. So I'd like to try it first on my own.

How can I try to explain the situation to my bank, so they can proceed with chargeback? Should I call them again, or put it in writing along with some evidence? If so, which terminology I should use instead of trading/broker company, so they can help me?

|improve this question
  • 8
    I think this money is gone. Assuming this is regarding the scam trading company in your other question, from what you described, you willingly and knowingly gave them the money. So, there's no fraudulent transaction on your account since you're the only person who has initiated such transfers. At best, you can try suing them for breach of contract. Banks don't give people back money for third party transactions simply because they have buyers remorse. – iheanyi Mar 13 '18 at 21:09
  • 4
    If a company offers to recover money but they charge a percentage, this is quite likely another scam, especially if they ask for the money upfront. – Acccumulation Mar 13 '18 at 21:56
  • 2
    Many other comments that mychargeback may be another scam. They want like $525 upfront, then another $525 in 11 business days, then they charge 25% of my recovered funds on top of that. If I won't recover funds, they'll still charge me ~500. – kenorb Mar 13 '18 at 22:00
  • 2
    @Acccumulation I'm using "fraudulent transaction" colloquially - as most people do. When someone says there is a fraudulent transaction on my credit card, they typically don't mean they were tricked into making the transaction. They mean that their credit card details were stolen and used to make the transaction. I notably did not confuse larceny and fraud because I didn't use those terms. In any case, the banks aren't in the business of reimbursing those taken in by fraud. – iheanyi Mar 13 '18 at 23:03
  • 4
    Do not use a paid service to get your money back. It is the same guy sitting at the same computer as stole your money already. You need to calm down and get help from somebody who is good at making financial decisions. If you try to continue as you have been you are going to keep getting scammed. – Patrick87 Mar 13 '18 at 23:35
7

I've tried to call my UK's bank to explain my situation, but as soon they've heard it's about a scam trading company, they say the chargeback doesn't apply for trading accounts according to their policy.

The Bank is right. You willing and knowingly transferred the funds. So from Banks point of view, there was no breach of security leading to fraud.

However, I believe I was dealing with a non-existing company, talked to not-traceable people, my payment details got stolen

Which is right in your case. However Banks have no jurisdiction in such cases. In theory it could that you transferred funds to some genuine company and got some goods / services in return. Now are unhappy and claim the other company is fraudulent. It would be for law enforcement / courts to read you contract with the company and determine if there was fraud or breach of service etc. The court order would then issue instructions to relevant institutions to initiate recovery.

using VISA Debit Card (they don't respond as well)

Visa / MasterCard networks only deal with institutions as they are members. An individual has relationship with Bank and not with Visa/Master.

How can I try to explain the situation to my bank, so they can proceed with chargeback? Should I call them again, or put it in writing along with some evidence?

Calling in such cases doesn't help. Do send a formal written complaint clearly stating the facts [avoid conclusions]. However I don't think Banks may do anything on their own. It is best to lodge a formal complaint with law enforcement.

There're some other companies, which can help by offering consulting services, but they charge 25-30% of the recovered funds, which is too expensive. So I'd like to try it first on my own.

Like mentioned in comments, no 3rd party can get your money back. The remote possibility is law enforcement, however for smaller amounts [from their point of view] they may not be motivated to put in the required efforts.

|improve this answer
  • 1
    @kenorb Apologies, Misread it. i-Pay maybe a fake facade built by the same team. I don't see any value add. They may have captured your card details, I hope you have got a new card and cancelled the previous one. – Dheer Mar 14 '18 at 11:46
3

3rd parties can and do help people recover money lost to scam brokers.

A retainer fee should be standard for these companies since any recovered funds in these cases always go directly to the purchaser and not to any 3rd party.

These are tough cases, as banks will commonly not have trained their employees - even their "Dispute Experts" in this area of chargebacks.

The first point to consider when communicating your issue to the bank is that this is an authorized charge - for this reason the issuer - the bank will get confused if you call it "fraud."

(Fraud to bank agents refers to unauthorized charges or counterfeit cards and the like).

You have a "service-related" chargeback on your hands with the reason being "Not as Described." Visa has the advantage in these cases, with their sub-category "Misrepresentation."

Your best bet is to examine the entire situation, the parameters of the services that you were expecting to receive (expressed and implied - ie in website content), what was provided, who provided it (are they qualified - authorized aka able to have provided the services that they claim to have provided...

Then build your case, gathering evidence of the above and present it to your issuer (usually the bank).

A proper fund recovery company will also provide communication and negotiation services, and will represent their client and their case to bank agents.

Doing all of the above - including showing proper communication and negotiation efforts with the broker - properly will cost you many hours of learning and work.

This is what people pay for when they enlist a reputable recovery company. There aren't guarantees of getting your money back, but in tough cases some chance can be better than no chance.

There is a chance you'll be successful with working your own chargeback, but practically speaking there's a very small chance of success trying it on your own.

This said, you should thoroughly vett any company you work with, checking out their registrations and any licences they're supposed to have. If they're in a random place like Belize or the Marshall Islands (among others) it's an automatic bad sign as these are places that don't have strong consumer protection regs in place, so it's easier for scammers to get away with their crimes by being registered in these places.

One last note is that you may still be able to work a chargeback. You would have a max potential of 540 days from payment dates to raise chargeback claims, though it has to be within 120 days of cancelling the faulty services.

Good luck

Amin

|improve this answer
3

If you book a flight with your credit card, and the airline goes bankrupt and you get no flight, that was an entirely legitimate transaction, and the credit card company will refund your money. The credit card company reimburses you if goods or services are not delivered.

But in this case, you didn't pay for goods or services. You (believed that you) invested money. You don't get reimbursed if you invest money, and things go wrong.

Credit card companies have fraud departments. You could have called their fraud department before handing over your money, and they would have told you it is a scam - it was so obvious. Your credit card company won't pay a penny.

As far as companies are concerned that chase after the money for you: If the charge 25% of the money recovered, that would be great if the recovered anything and you got 75% back. It's not going to happen. Scammers are usually good at one thing: Taking the money to a safe place where it cannot be recovered.

You paid for a learning experience. The next time you'll know better.

|improve this answer
0

If you believe that you are the victim of fraud, contact your local police. They are the ones who can start the ball rolling for bringing the perpetrators to justice. They have the investigative powers necessary.

Unfortunately any information the potential scammers may have given you (such as their location, country etc.) is probably false. They also sometimes pose as legitimate businesses with the same name.

A solicitor or barrister who has experience with financial fraud should be able to sort it out fairly easily or tell you quite quickly if it is not possible. Typically you'd expect to pay about £500, but they will give you an answer one way or the other. It might involve taking your bank to court to have the money returned, but these types of cases should be fairly straightforward.

It sounds like the bank staff are trying to find ways to not return your money (as they are likely to have to eat those costs), so you might need the 'stick' of a court order to persuade them.

I would suggest telling your bank that if they're not going to reimburse you, you will be engaging a lawyer to recover the funds from them, and that they will also be liable for the costs of doing so. Give them a few days to respond. In the meantime, find a solicitor or barrister to work with you on this matter, and engage them (i.e. pay them to start doing the work) when the deadline passes.

You should shop around and find out what costs you might typically expect, and whether they are likely recoverable from the defendant (the bank), and whether they have handled this type of situation before.

|improve this answer

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged or ask your own question.