I have asked for proof of debt and been told they “don't need to prove it”

Question

I lived in the Netherlands for about 6 months in 2015 and was a customer of Ziggo (internet provider).

When I cancelled my account (November 2015) they told me (on the phone, not recorded) that there was nothing else I had to do. I was moving back to the UK and wanted to check everything was cancelled and all payments would definitely stop etc...

In February 2016 I received an email telling me that I owed them €400 for not returning the TV box thing. (They never asked me to return it in the first place).

I asked for proof from them that they told me about this and they couldn't send me anything.

Now it has been sent to a debt collector and they are threatening me with legal proceedings if I don't pay. I just got off the phone with them and they also said they don't need to send me proof.

They claim it was in the T&Cs when I signed. I asked them to send that over so I can see and they said no. They repeatedly claim that they "don't need to prove it".

They seem to think that just sending me an invoice is proof enough.

If I really do owe that money and I really was told about it (told about the charge for not returning the box) before that invoice arrived then I have told them I will pay. I have told them this for over a year and for over a year they have not responded to my emails and have not sent any other document than the invoice sent in February 2016.

Not sure what else I can do here?

Answer 1

I cannot speak specifically to the Netherlands or the UK specifically, but my prejudice has me believing that there would be more consumer protection in those two countries than that we have here in the the US, certainly not less.

Debt collectors mostly do their job by bullying. Here in the US they are mostly toothless and typically obtain payments when they invoke an emotional reaction. In your case they are attempting to invoke fear. Legal action over €400? Get real. It will cost them 20 times that to bring action, and they are equally likely to get a sympathetic judge to toss out the case.

Now you very well know you should have returned the box, please don't be coy. If you still have it, you should attempt to return it. If not you should attempt to settle. Offer them €80, going no higher than €160. Get it in writing, that this satisfies the debt and use either a one time use credit card or a bank check/money order.

Answer 2

This is more of a legal question than a monetary one.

You can try to negotiate with the debt owner as Pete B. suggests.

Alternatively, you can ignore them and see what happens. They might sue you for the 400 plus costs, or maybe not. That is a pretty small amount for a lawyer to show up in a court of law. If you go to court, you can win by testifying that you returned the box and the charge is invalid. If you testify in court that you did not return the box, then you will lose.

Sometimes a debt collector will just file a credit complaint against you and you would have to go to court to get that complaint removed from your record with the credit agency.

The loan owner has no idea whether you returned the box at all. All they have is a debt security which simply says who owes the money and how much it is. In a court room they have zero evidence against you (unless you said something to them and they wrote it down or recorded it).